Toxic top defender culture

[masotflikr]

I have noticed in recent time that more and more people are aiming to be top defender more than winning the map. overdefending a good thing most of the time but everything has its downsides. whenever you overdefend you obviously run the risk of dying to ZM tp, and whenever people die to teleports, they will tryhard as zm to try and stop people from taking over their top defender spot. As much as i dont want to point and shame, people like retarded trigger finger and LB legend are people ive noticed who die consistently to teleports and other bad luck from trying to be top defender, and once they die they tryhard as zm. there are probably other people who do this (not on purpose) but i singled out rtf and LB legend because they are decent at zombie. and its annoying to see whenever there are rounds that probably could have been won, only to die to someone who overdefended and then tryharded as zm.


My solution to this isnt to remove top defender plugin but to tweak it. removing the cl_showpluginmessages in the top left, or changing it to only show damage and not position, as well as removing scoreboard position in deaths would see a reduction in people dying from overdefending. this wont stop overdefenders from dying in retarded ways, but my hopes is that it will reduce it and also stop new players from doing the same. Server pop hasnt been the best recently, and whenever someone dies overdefending during low pop and then tryhard as zm, it makes it much harder to win compared to if the server was full.


although this method isnt fully accurate, i divided the amount of damage dealt, by the amount of times a player won as human for several players and these are the results

LG Legend: 21~
Zouay: 15~
Rtf: 36~

its a bit of a nothing burger but these are the results for people who dont overdefend (and die)

sebr: 3~
harley: 12~
encap: 5~
jake snowey: 12~
alucard:5~
frozil:8~

Its grasping at straws but essentially having a higher "average" means for the damage you deal, you win less maps. rtf did 2,672,000 (2672 x 1000 [damage needed for hlstatsx to give you points]) since points reset, but he has only won a round as human 77 times???? sort of went off on a tangent but i wanted to point out stuff that i noticed and other people probably didnt.

this wasnt meant to be a callout to overdefenders but its become really annoying recently.


current players will likely not change their habits but hopefully changing the plugin will stop new players from developing a bad playstyle.

 

[Mike]

I have noticed in recent time that more and more people are aiming to be top defender more than winning the map. overdefending a good thing most of the time but everything has its downsides. whenever you overdefend you obviously run the risk of dying to ZM tp, and whenever people die to teleports, they will tryhard as zm to try and stop people from taking over their top defender spot. As much as i dont want to point and shame, people like retarded trigger finger and LB legend are people ive noticed who die consistently to teleports and other bad luck from trying to be top defender, and once they die they tryhard as zm. there are probably other people who do this (not on purpose) but i singled out rtf and LB legend because they are decent at zombie. and its annoying to see whenever there are rounds that probably could have been won, only to die to someone who overdefended and then tryharded as zm.


My solution to this isnt to remove top defender plugin but to tweak it. removing the cl_showpluginmessages in the top left, or changing it to only show damage and not position, as well as removing scoreboard position in deaths would see a reduction in people dying from overdefending. this wont stop overdefenders from dying in retarded ways, but my hopes is that it will reduce it and also stop new players from doing the same. Server pop hasnt been the best recently, and whenever someone dies overdefending during low pop and then tryhard as zm, it makes it much harder to win compared to if the server was full.


although this method isnt fully accurate, i divided the amount of damage dealt, by the amount of times a player won as human for several players and these are the results

LG Legend: 21~
Zouay: 15~
Rtf: 36~

its a bit of a nothing burger but these are the results for people who dont overdefend (and die)

sebr: 3~
harley: 12~
encap: 5~
jake snowey: 12~
alucard:5~
frozil:8~

Its grasping at straws but essentially having a higher "average" means for the damage you deal, you win less maps. rtf did 2,672,000 (2672 x 1000 [damage needed for hlstatsx to give you points]) since points reset, but he has only won a round as human 77 times???? sort of went off on a tangent but i wanted to point out stuff that i noticed and other people probably didnt.

this wasnt meant to be a callout to overdefenders but its become really annoying recently.


current players will likely not change their habits but hopefully changing the plugin will stop new players from developing a bad playstyle.

Rtf tryhards doesn't matter if he's dies or starts at mz. And try point at urself regarding surf maps or other maps with racetimers you want to play, if you die while trying to get the best time or start as mz you sweat your ass off just to end the round. And you start to flame other players if they die and tryhard?

 

[masotflikr]

Rtf tryhards doesn't matter if he's dies or starts at mz.

I have no problem with people who are mother zombie tryharding, I have problem with over defenders, who then tryhard as zm after they die overdefending. People play very risky for no reason and end up dying unnecessarily, and then tryhard. It’s soft inflating, a lot of the times they die can be avoided and the outcome of the round would likely be unchanged.

And try point at urself regarding surf maps or other maps with racetimers you want to play, if you die while trying to get the best time or start as mz you sweat your ass off just to end the round.

If I die going for a good time I go AFK afterwards as to not inflate. If I am mother zombie I will tryhard that is in the spirit of the game.


I would have preferred if you tried to give more constructive points about the topic of the thread instead criticising me. I am very against inflating and whenever I die stupidly I do not tryhard. I only pointed out people in my thread because it’s becoming a problem. Rtf has more hours than me on css and I’m pretty sure has been playing longer than me, but still consistently dies nearly every round going for top defender.


The original post if you actually read it, is to try and kill off the subcategory of players who specifically go for top defender instead of play the objective/winning the map. By removing the ability to see how close you are to being top defender, it will deter people from taking up a degenerate playstyle.

There is no correct way to play ZE, but if the way that you play breaks rules (i.e. inflating), the something has to change.

Giving the top 3 defenders immunity or whatever should still be kept, removing the ability to see how much damage you have done and how close you are to being the top defender is a move in the right direction IMO.

 

[Mike]

I would have preferred if you tried to give more constructive points about the topic of the thread instead criticising me. I am very against inflating and whenever I die stupidly I do not tryhard. I only pointed out people in my thread because it’s becoming a problem. Rtf has more hours than me on css and I’m pretty sure has been playing longer than me, but still consistently dies nearly every round going for top defender

I didn't criticise you, I pointed out the way you play on certain maps. Trigger finger plays the same way and goes for top defender every map that was my point my bad for not elaborating further but for the most time he does get us far enough for a win while dying in the process. And yes I can see what you mean about them dying and then tryharding as zm as well but none has ever said anything neither when a few admins is online or any players for that matter. Cus I believe they don't die on purpose so it isn't a big problem, yeah they die stupidly but so does many other players they just don't tryhard like some others do when they die

 

[masotflikr]

Cus I believe they don't die on purpose so it isn't a big problem, yeah they die stupidly but so does many other players they just don't tryhard like some others do when they die

Even if someone dies by mistake and not on purpose, it can become a problem. Just because they aren’t dying on purpose doesn’t justify them dying every round. Dying every round to zombie TP or being too close to ZM, and then tryharding afterwards borders on inflating. People care more about having the most damage instead of winning the round, they could not care if the round is won or not.

If I earth someone by mistake, or knife someone by mistake, or doorhug with item by mistake, or early trigger by mistake, it can’t always be forgiven because it is a mistake.
If I died overdefending ‘by mistake’ and then tryhard as zm every round, how is this different than dying at spawn. It’s not a playstyle that should be endorsed. You can’t just ‘XD died to teleport going for 100k damage, gonna tryhard now lmao’ every round. I’m sure if I did the same thing someone would point it out. Mistakes are mistakes but you are meant to learn from them, not play the exact same way every time, and then expect it to turn out differently.

 

[Metroid Skittles]

Trigger Finger has helped you win countless rounds with consistent defending, same with LB_Legend. We talk shit about them dying but they generally hold the zombies off single handedly for 3 to 5 minutes a round before that. I wouldn't consider that inflating at all.

 

[masotflikr]

What good does overdefending do whenever you die and then tryhard to make zombies win, every round.

 

[sebR]

I like the thread and I agree with it to some extent.
I do however think this is a "right message wrong messenger" scenario.

Just yesterday you earthed me on first trigger on Tyranny, which was definitly not a "mistake" - wasn't necessarily a troll or got people killed, but there was just no point in doing it.
I do agree that I sometimes die stupid ways, given that I do not have alot of experience on certain maps, and that I may simply be AFK or doing something else at some point.
I defend ZMs the best I can, and due to my somewhat poor map experience, I sometimes might die to a ZM tp. That will be my poor excuse.
If I am busy with something else and die, I will either leave or go spec.
In any case, even if I die and "tryhard" I simply believe other players should be able to shoot me back, instead of earthing people on doors for example.

To conclude: I think this goes both ways, since I believe more experienced players should help covering/leading/guiding instead of trolling, which in most cases will give newer players a better time in general, but that is just my take.