- May 21, 2018
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CT biased?
- Thread starter Kaczor
- Start date
The nature of ZE is meant to favour humans. Zombies "winning" is not an objective. The maps and the gamemode is designed with the endgoal of humans winning.
The maps are not "customized". If that remark was in regards to server settings such as bhop or ammo management, unloze is open to feedback regarding that. Just recently we for instance voted to have falldamage on certain maps. As for zammo I agree that it's a meh plugin (which btw is also being discussed right now in the VIP section of the forum). Settings can always get harder and I agree that too "easy" settings for humans can be super tedious in the long run. Just look at GFL for instance and their baby settings.
Unfortunately you also have to give in to the fact that teams today are so much better than they used to be. More people know the maps. Perhaps it's time to slowly make some settings "harder"?
I get that this is more of a rant post than a means to provide any actual constructive criticism. I thought I could still offer you a reply.
The maps are not "customized". If that remark was in regards to server settings such as bhop or ammo management, unloze is open to feedback regarding that. Just recently we for instance voted to have falldamage on certain maps. As for zammo I agree that it's a meh plugin (which btw is also being discussed right now in the VIP section of the forum). Settings can always get harder and I agree that too "easy" settings for humans can be super tedious in the long run. Just look at GFL for instance and their baby settings.
Unfortunately you also have to give in to the fact that teams today are so much better than they used to be. More people know the maps. Perhaps it's time to slowly make some settings "harder"?
I get that this is more of a rant post than a means to provide any actual constructive criticism. I thought I could still offer you a reply.
This is very much false. Quite the fallacy as you're so used to say.
Yes, it is meant to hint at the objective of humans escaping, but seeing as players are picked randomly to become zombies and fight against humans, I'd say they earn the right to make humans lose just as much humans have the objective to win. It shouldn't favor anyone's side. It should be equal, if at least, slightly inclined towards ct side.
But at the moment, that isn't the case. It's heavily inclined towards ct side. I get piss shit bored of playing as a zombie, that my only entertainment is either practicing bhop or alt tabbing the fuck off till humans have gotten over their lack of intelligence for not being able to win a round so damn easy that is available in the current day.
That is to say though; TLDR; this post is just Kabzor being one of the players that is tired of this bs favoring human side too much. I can assure you he won't be the last if this continues.
- May 21, 2018
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I'm tipsy so that checks out. Nevertheless, still on point. I'm sure the other fag would complain anyway.
This is being discussed among the admins, let’s see what happens, but there is a poll going on about this at the VIP forum. I have the same opinion as you, playing as a zombie on maps that don’t have bhop enabled can be pretty boring. Let’s think and discuss to make things more balanced for both humans and zombies.
So you think no bhop on minas is a new thing?
And what are the changes to potc or arctic you are talking about?
And what are the changes to potc or arctic you are talking about?
I've played since late 2011. Since mako is officially 10 years old, I guess that's a No to that question.
Fallacy you say but still use statements such as "make humans lose" and "if at least, slightly inclined towards ct side". Nevertheless, I'm with you on the fact that it can definitely be more equal and zombies could have more advantages. But it appears we both agree it should be even slightly human side.
BotoX
New User
- Nov 23, 2020
- 3
- 2
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Since there has been some experimentation with settings going on on the server, can we try the following for a week or two:
Also give the TMP its 50 bullets back, the MP5 has it too...
Also give the TMP its 50 bullets back, the MP5 has it too...
Code:
zr_zammo_enabled 0
zr_zcleanse_enabled 0
// Dont allow users to rebuy weapons to refill their clip. [Dependency: zr_weapons_zmarket]
zr_weapons_zmarket_norefill "1"
weapons.txt:
"HEGrenade"
{
"zmarketpurchasemax" "0"
}maybe keep rebuys since zammo is disabled? @BotoX
other than that honestly i like a challenge so i'm all up for what botox suggested (even if rebuys are disabled)
IgglePiggle
Active User
Every map was made to be beaten, of course back then (ZMCorp, GFL, i3d, bG, hellz not so much) people were try harding way more than today, people knew how to play and adapt to the server settings.
My long term memory is fucked but I remember servers having fall damage on most maps, bhop was disabled, no rebuys, etc and we still won maps. Items such as heal were actually important and not just another gateway to not being infected. People were actually defending and not door hugging back then.
To be honest, current settings are a bit overpowered, but I think that's just the servers adapting to the meta.
My long term memory is fucked but I remember servers having fall damage on most maps, bhop was disabled, no rebuys, etc and we still won maps. Items such as heal were actually important and not just another gateway to not being infected. People were actually defending and not door hugging back then.
To be honest, current settings are a bit overpowered, but I think that's just the servers adapting to the meta.
FierceG
Renowned User
Funny how this problem is acted like it's server specific when this is 90% a map problem of offering poor chances to zombies.
- May 21, 2018
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Disclaimer: wall of text.
Ah bless you @Kaczor , makes me feel instantly better to hear these words from someone that has been playing for a decade, too.
I want to give my input on this as well. Played from 2011 to 2017, took a break and only recently came back. And well, kind of sucks to see how things evolved but it was foreseeable already when I left three years ago.
While I think it's a good idea to keep adding stuff to keep things fresh and exciting, many things that have been added have just dumbed down most of the gameplay. For me, ent_watch was the start of it. The plugin removed the necessity to keep track of various things. However, I also liked it because it made playing less stressful and more attractive to casual play. It took pressure off new players, they didn't have to be as scared anymore to pick up items which was great because you'd see the same players grab items every round and trashtalk anyone that failed to use it the way it's meta has dictated it.
But man, look at all the shit you have today. There's big impossible-to-miss timers on the top center of your screen for many maps nowadays that make it far too easy to keep track of your map and item progress. Bosses have gotten fat attack announces, hitmarkers have given every player vital information where a boss actually registers hits or doesn't which has sped up boss fights noticeably. The implementation of money being added to your balance depending on the damage you deal, increasing amounts of rebuys. !zammo which I don't even want to start with because it's the biggest bullshit. The top defender's plugin has made every tryhard a raidboss that won't let you leave your spawn. Bunnyhop has been disabled further and further. Maps that were great and entertaining with bhop have had it removed. Then re-added but then partly removed again on the most useful spots with tools such as Stripper, making it pointless to have it activated on the map to begin with. Take predator_ultimate as example. Where you are on the heli platform and get boosted up. Humans are given sv_enablebunnyhopping 1 but as soon as they're up and safe, it get's disabled right when zombies show up, then a few seconds later when the zm bhop opportunity is gone, enabled again. What the fuck? Bosses and other entities now have their HP shown on players UI. Will take Mako as example why it's bad, but can be applied to any other boss-map. I remember a time where I had a feeling when bahamut was about to die. How? Fucking gamesense. You pay attention to your surroundings, items, players, zombies. How many players have entered the boss fight? Are players shooting the boss? Where are they shooting him at, are they using established guns such as SMGs or assault rifles, or even worse - shotguns? What items have been used and how many times? Are humans distracted by zombies... So many things that have given me info that helped me guess the boss HP. All things of the past. You keep your eyes on the UI element that shows it's HP and there's nothing to worry about. You're being spoonfed information whether you should use your damage-applying item on the boss a second time, or keep it to use right after the fight against zombies (which is a huge thing considering items like Ultima/Holy have a massive impact on rounds. Being told to not having to use these items (which is basically what showing boss HP does) is giving humans additional item usages against zombies.
Shit and then there is maps as thankfully @FierceG has adressed. The plugins themselves aren't as bad as I make them out to be, but in combination with the maps, they create an environment which is just not fun to play in as zombie. You need to keep in mind that majority of maps have been developed when these new additions to ZE weren't a thing. We won hard maps with settings such as plagueFest had them, 950 ammo max, no rebuys as far as I remember. 1 nade, fall damage. You name it. So please don't tell me that these plugins are required in any way to help players win maps.
I'm a very potent complainer about maps. I just hate that people put so much time and effort into maps, some of them actually look outright beautiful and have a nice artstyle, but their playability is just complete trash. To name a few examples of awful map design:
Most of this can't be fixed without enormous work because the root problem are the maps.
!zcleanse in my opinion was a great idea. But the implementation is poor because stacking on other burning zombies which can be unavoidable will still slow you down. Some items reapply fire in intervalls making !zcleanse not even useful to avoid item fire.
Bhop is a major reason people enjoy playing zombie. Not only because it's fun but because it offers large potential to make round-deciding plays. Let humans improvise and adapt, let them fiind ideas to fight against that mechanic. Force them to adapt and work for their wins. Don't just disable bhop because it's the reason CTs loose a round here and there. Hard limit rebuys. Max. 3 so people need to actually consider when is the best time to use them. Do anything to improve the gameplay for zombies and stop favouring humans in every way. SupremeElite had a jumpspeed boost for motherzombies which was amazing, strong but can be tweaked. Maybe play around with active abilities such as !zcleanse. I'm a big fan of the ability idea. A suggestion from my side for example your knife-exhaust becomes faster so you can effectively knife 5 times a second. Many times when I make it past an obstacle and infect someone, me and that person just get triple headshot back into the wombs we were developed in, before we could infect anybody else.
Edited 06.feb.21
Ah bless you @Kaczor , makes me feel instantly better to hear these words from someone that has been playing for a decade, too.
I want to give my input on this as well. Played from 2011 to 2017, took a break and only recently came back. And well, kind of sucks to see how things evolved but it was foreseeable already when I left three years ago.
While I think it's a good idea to keep adding stuff to keep things fresh and exciting, many things that have been added have just dumbed down most of the gameplay. For me, ent_watch was the start of it. The plugin removed the necessity to keep track of various things. However, I also liked it because it made playing less stressful and more attractive to casual play. It took pressure off new players, they didn't have to be as scared anymore to pick up items which was great because you'd see the same players grab items every round and trashtalk anyone that failed to use it the way it's meta has dictated it.
But man, look at all the shit you have today. There's big impossible-to-miss timers on the top center of your screen for many maps nowadays that make it far too easy to keep track of your map and item progress. Bosses have gotten fat attack announces, hitmarkers have given every player vital information where a boss actually registers hits or doesn't which has sped up boss fights noticeably. The implementation of money being added to your balance depending on the damage you deal, increasing amounts of rebuys. !zammo which I don't even want to start with because it's the biggest bullshit. The top defender's plugin has made every tryhard a raidboss that won't let you leave your spawn. Bunnyhop has been disabled further and further. Maps that were great and entertaining with bhop have had it removed. Then re-added but then partly removed again on the most useful spots with tools such as Stripper, making it pointless to have it activated on the map to begin with. Take predator_ultimate as example. Where you are on the heli platform and get boosted up. Humans are given sv_enablebunnyhopping 1 but as soon as they're up and safe, it get's disabled right when zombies show up, then a few seconds later when the zm bhop opportunity is gone, enabled again. What the fuck? Bosses and other entities now have their HP shown on players UI. Will take Mako as example why it's bad, but can be applied to any other boss-map. I remember a time where I had a feeling when bahamut was about to die. How? Fucking gamesense. You pay attention to your surroundings, items, players, zombies. How many players have entered the boss fight? Are players shooting the boss? Where are they shooting him at, are they using established guns such as SMGs or assault rifles, or even worse - shotguns? What items have been used and how many times? Are humans distracted by zombies... So many things that have given me info that helped me guess the boss HP. All things of the past. You keep your eyes on the UI element that shows it's HP and there's nothing to worry about. You're being spoonfed information whether you should use your damage-applying item on the boss a second time, or keep it to use right after the fight against zombies (which is a huge thing considering items like Ultima/Holy have a massive impact on rounds. Being told to not having to use these items (which is basically what showing boss HP does) is giving humans additional item usages against zombies.
Shit and then there is maps as thankfully @FierceG has adressed. The plugins themselves aren't as bad as I make them out to be, but in combination with the maps, they create an environment which is just not fun to play in as zombie. You need to keep in mind that majority of maps have been developed when these new additions to ZE weren't a thing. We won hard maps with settings such as plagueFest had them, 950 ammo max, no rebuys as far as I remember. 1 nade, fall damage. You name it. So please don't tell me that these plugins are required in any way to help players win maps.
I'm a very potent complainer about maps. I just hate that people put so much time and effort into maps, some of them actually look outright beautiful and have a nice artstyle, but their playability is just complete trash. To name a few examples of awful map design:
- Wide open areas with no cover for zombies
- Corridors with very tight entry points from one room to another
- Boss fights where zombies are locked up (worse when there is no exciting things to do/explore (mako is a great counter-example, you can't do much there but watching the bossfight still isn't boring because you can run around, climb around, watch from all sorts of angles. You can even use some of the things there to telehop out of the cage and look at the fucking shenanigans me and others have pulled off in my videos)). A shit boss fight area is where zombies just get teleported on an invisible brush above the bossfight and can do nothing but look down, stand still and yawn. (Or think of the zm cages on westersand). These kind of tight spaces and rooms are used for interrogation and torture in real-life, but here they are used in a product that is supposed to entertain.
- The implementation of too many items that hold back zombies. Many maps go from one hold to another while there are 5+ human items that can all block zombies for multiple seconds. You just need one item but at like every hold it seems like at least two items are up.
- Slow zombie teleports, meaning humans can continue to defend a hold that is supposed to be abandoned.
- Hold spots where zombies need to climb or jump over obstacles, fall into a pit if shot and get teleported back so they have to repeat the process all over again.
- ...
Most of this can't be fixed without enormous work because the root problem are the maps.
!zcleanse in my opinion was a great idea. But the implementation is poor because stacking on other burning zombies which can be unavoidable will still slow you down. Some items reapply fire in intervalls making !zcleanse not even useful to avoid item fire.
Bhop is a major reason people enjoy playing zombie. Not only because it's fun but because it offers large potential to make round-deciding plays. Let humans improvise and adapt, let them fiind ideas to fight against that mechanic. Force them to adapt and work for their wins. Don't just disable bhop because it's the reason CTs loose a round here and there. Hard limit rebuys. Max. 3 so people need to actually consider when is the best time to use them. Do anything to improve the gameplay for zombies and stop favouring humans in every way. SupremeElite had a jumpspeed boost for motherzombies which was amazing, strong but can be tweaked. Maybe play around with active abilities such as !zcleanse. I'm a big fan of the ability idea. A suggestion from my side for example your knife-exhaust becomes faster so you can effectively knife 5 times a second. Many times when I make it past an obstacle and infect someone, me and that person just get triple headshot back into the wombs we were developed in, before we could infect anybody else.
Edited 06.feb.21
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